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Gila Hayes By Peggy Tartaro,
As is so often the case with the "cobbler's children," the review of the book languished while I did yearend chores, got ready for the show, etc. Last issue I was determined to get the review in-especially since I had waved off a couple offers from others to do it. Space and time once again conspired against me, and so the review (see sidebar) didn't make it to print until this issue. But as I was examining my notes in preparation for writing the review, it occurred to me that I should get in touch with Gila who has meant so much to this magazine and pose a few questions. I can't take credit for discovering Gila-that honor belongs to founding editor Sonny Jones in 1992, when she was still Gila May. I can (and do!) take credit for making her a contributing editor and for relying on her heavily for the next decade or so to do the bulk of our handgun reviews. At some point Gila May became Gila May-Hayes and then Gila Hayes, but in all those years she has been a credible and reliable witness to developments not only in the technicalities of guns, but to the expansion of women into the growing number of women Concealed Carry License holders. At some point she decided that she'd rather write less about the guns themselves than about the process of being a woman gunowner, and so she switched to writing the Armed Lifestyle column for us. In recent years her involvement with projects like the Firearms Academy of Seattle (firearmsacademy.com) with her husband, Marty; her two previous books (Effective Defense, editions I and II) and her latest project-The Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network (armedcitizensnetwork.com) have meant she hasn't been writing for us with any regularity. When she told me about the Legal Defense Network project a few years ago, I was excited for her and Marty, but heartbroken I wouldn't have her to rely on, not just for features to fill these pages, but for all she has come to mean to me and readers of W&G. (We've been blessed with a committed core of contributing editors who never let me-and especially readers-down.) Gila has mentored a number of other women gun writers, including Kathy Jackson and Diane Walls. Along the way, she herself has become one of the preeminent defensive handgun teachers-with or without the qualifying "woman" before instructors. I don't know anyone-in a pretty broad spectrum-that doesn't admire Gila, and that doesn't like her as well. I remember sitting at dinner with Mas Ayoob at a Gun Rights Policy Conference some years ago. The first sentence out of his mouth was "Gila won the Washington State title!" At an NRA show a number of years ago, an elderly gentleman stopped by the booth. When he learned I was W&G's editor, he said, "I've got to tell you-I get such a kick out of seeing that Gila throw herself around in your pages. She does everything!"
Q You shoot competitively and have hunted. What are the advantages to "recreational" shooting to those interested in self-defense training? A The advantages are trigger time, repetitions with the firearm and reasons to remain well practiced and enthusiastically in pursuit of better and better levels of skill! It has been some years since time constraints have allowed regular participation in competitive shooting, but I have no doubt that much of my early progress as a shooter was hastened by shooting IPSC matches and bowling pin shoots, to name only a few. The competitive shooter has to master a smooth draw, keeping the gun loaded and running, plus apply the fundamentals of use of sights and trigger control. Where else can you go to get repeated lessons on the basics under the pressure of time and competition in a fun and challenging environment? As a hunter, the necessity for a quick, humane kill means practicing hard to be dialed in with the rifle and any ancillary equipment like a scope or passing up shots you wish you could take. As a hunter, skill means being able to master my own self, too, breathing, dealing with tremors, effects of physical exertion, bad conditions like rain and cold, and still making good decisions. I suppose the same applies to competitive shooting, too, but as a hunter, there is the life of the deer, antelope or pig on the line, so to me the stakes are on a completely different level. In competitive shooting, you know you are going to shoot, and you work hard to do it as skillfully, quickly and accurately as possible. In hunting, taking a shot happens once a season, and then only if you have done your work and actually get on a legal animal you want to take home to eat. Q What's the smartest question a student ever asked you-perhaps one that made you reconsider something you had always done? A The student is always teaching you something if you're alert to the opportunity! We have always leaned toward principle-based lessons, not specific "if this happens, you do this" kinds of instruction. The most challenging questions are more often about tactics or about laws. About the former, one of the most contentious in recent years has been the question of open carry vs. concealed carry. I've not changed my own choices in that regard, but if a student wants to open carry, has a good retention holster and knows handgun retention skills, I am much less likely to advise, "Don't do it," than I was five years ago. It now falls into the realm of personal choice, and I am always loath to impose my beliefs on the practices, where legal, of another person. Q Our readers always seemed to be able to get a good sense of you personally without your giving up too much personal information. That's a rare skill in writers in my opinion. So-inquiring minds want to know-did you ever get a test sample and think "Yeech!" Conversely, did you ever get a sample that you liked so much you were almost afraid you were over-praising it? (No need to mention brands unless you want to!) A When I first came to Women & Guns I brought along my experience as a newspaper writer and submitted several of what must have been the driest reports about guns in the history of gun magazines! It was my husband, interestingly enough, who advised that the articles needed to have more of a personal touch. (And to think, we criticize men for not sharing their emotions!) Well, it was good advice, and from there on, the challenge was to be sure that, if citing any difficulties with the gun being reviewed, those complaints were actually owing to some attribute in the equipment, not a weakness in my own skill set! And I know that reader feedback from time to time suggested impatience with what I thought was important and what they valued, so who knows how well all that worked out? One huge advantage that I had was regular contact with female students coming to train with us at the Firearms Academy of Seattle. I didn't use them as test subjects for the guns (because they were there to learn specific things and I would not distract them from their lessons), but exposure to all those different ladies gave me a healthy cross-section of women from whom I could form ideas about needs for concealment or home defense guns, how well different gun features like safeties or decockers worked for most women, how much strength most ladies had in their hands, and more. I was able to choose guns to review that seemed suitable to the women I'd had in classes, and I think that worked out pretty well. Based on that knowledge, I usually asked to be allowed to review certain guns. There were a few guns over the years that I was asked to review, but I never felt pressured by Women & Guns to write about something that I thought just plain didn't make sense for our readers. The main thing I wanted in a gun we reviewed was reliability, a reasonable fit for most of our women readers, and the expectation of durability. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed that a lot of the $100 guns (realize, this was 20 years ago) were being marketed as "perfect for women." Maybe they thought that was all most women could afford, I don't know. I certainly hope they didn't think that was all the women were worth! And these "bargains" had cylinder releases or thumb safeties that fell off before the first 100 rounds were fired, they misfired, misfed or failed to extract three or four rounds per box of ammo (and that was on a good sample), or maybe the sights flew off half way into testing. After testing one of those, and this was also quite early in my time as a gunwriter, I opined that the reader would be better off buying a used Smith & Wesson revolver for a couple of hundred dollars. In the aftermath of that lapse in judgment (predictably, the manufacturer was not particularly pleased), I decided that I would write about documented failures (and often took pictures if possible to prove my point), but resolved that I would avoid giving opinions about what might be a better choice! Over the years, I sent a few guns back unreviewed to manufacturers, too, when the thing just didn't work as advertised. Was that duplicitous? I don't think so. We were tasked with writing about good gun choices for women, and were not posing as Consumer Reports, so I never felt that we were hiding anything. If a gun we chose to review had problems that seemed like something that could be fixed, I tried to put the lacking feature in perspective. "If this were my gun, I would" was usually how those criticisms started.
Q In Chapter 2 (Safety Conscious Attitude) and, indeed, throughout the new book, you talk about mindset and evolution from what we might call a Condition White worldview to a Condition Yellow worldview. This is THE big step for most women, especially those who are not familiar with guns or self-defense. Do you think it's a harder step for women (than men)? Do you recommend any exercises or teaching materials to help women get there? A I am so happy
that message comes through! Humans are so cerebral that unless
we are consciously pursuing a behavior, it doesn't happen automatically.
And you're right, in self-defense training of any sort, the first
step is acknowledging danger, putting habits in place to recognize
it from afar, and thus avoiding as much as possible, or having
an appropriate and strong counter in place if it is unavoidable! Next, something that Vicki Farnam expressed to me with great eloquence when I interviewed her a few months ago for an online journal I publish, much of the resistance to acknowledging that dangers exist comes from the idea (imposed on us and reinforced by the entertainment media, I'd add) that if attacked a woman really can't do much about it other than being horribly victimized, or screaming for someone to save her. If that were the best alternative, really, who would be willing to look at the facts and agree that there are dangers against which we may need to defend? If a woman has been shown and learned effective ways to fight off an assailant, she may well find it far easier to undertake the next step to get her head up, eyes scanning and become aware of all the things (safe and unsafe) going on around her! This is an interesting cart-and-horse conundrum! We usually try to convince people to come learn how to defend themselves because of the dangers all around. Maybe we need to invite people to come learn some interesting and useful skills (firearms operation and marksmanship, martial arts and speed and strength development, or defensive driving, to name a few) and after they see that they are not helpless little princesses, but full-fledged human beings with valuable skills and abilities, then the mindset that supports awareness, avoidance and a willingness to act in self defense may follow more naturally. Q Tell us a little about the evolution of Legal Defense Network. A Several years ago, we put my husband, Marty Hayes, through law school, where he earned his Juris Doctor (J.D.); I was very proud of him, because it was grueling hard work! Toward the end, he came to the realization that he didn't want to merely become one more attorney, so instead, began to formulate the idea of a membership organization made up of armed citizens coming together to pool resources for the defense of members unmeritoriously prosecuted after using deadly force in self defense. Apparently it was a great idea, because now, starting our third year, we are approaching 1800 members and have nearly $40,000 in a fund comprised of 25% of all membership dues that is earmarked for grants to help our members with legal expenses in the aftermath of a shooting. I came on board because while we have two tremendous idea and organization people leading the Network-that being Marty and our partner in this venture, Vincent Shuck-I also believed that we needed someone first to do and eventually to ramrod all the day-to-day, mundane operational details. At the same time, I came to you and asked for an extended leave of absence from the magazine, and put out the word to other editors that I would be taking a step back from freelancing while the Network got a strong start. It proved a good decision because the Network has grown into a 60 and 70 hour a week adventure for me. Of course, within months of deciding to quit writing and concentrate on getting the Network started, I got a call from Dan Shideler on behalf of Krause Publications asking about writing a women's book. I couldn't believe the timing, but at the same time, I had wanted to write for them for the longest time, and couldn't walk away from it, either. Q In Personal Defense for Women, you discuss in detail a number of non-lethal tools for self-defense. Do you think non-lethal tools are an overlooked option for people? A Absolutely! The firearm is a longer-distance option, and I think it engenders an attractive fallacy-that we can do what has to be done from across the room, not in physical contact. Oh, would that it were so! Non-lethal usually means something that would be used in close proximity, often in contact distance, with an assailant and that is considerably more daunting. Non-lethal options require training and practice just like firearms, and that's not so easy if we are talking pepper spray, mini baton, or empty hand techniques. They're important, though, because the reality is that assailants don't let you know you've been selected as the victim until they are quite close. If you've got your wits about you, you may detect the warning signs at sufficient distance to disengage through a variety of actions, but for a lot of folks, the realization that they have been chosen comes at the moment they are grabbed, hit, knocked over or threatened. Since you wouldn't walk around with a gun in your hand, a mini baton or other handheld device or empty hand techniques are the factor that will buy you the time and distance to draw a gun, get away, create a distraction, whatever. We must also take care, though, not to confuse the intermediate weapons I think you're referring to, with something with which we can engage in a deadly force defense. A Taser®, for example, is a fine choice where a gun is prohibited (provided the authorities haven't restricted electronic control devices, as well!). It does not have the stopping power of a gun, however, and though Taser® gives us the option to lay down the device while it is running and try to escape, that cycle is over pretty quickly and also leaves some big gaps in defenses against multiple assailants. Q When you were writing The Armed Lifestyle column for W&G you often referenced your "sewing circle" of like-minded women who shared information, techniques, etc. Do you still belong to such a group? Do you still learn from it? A We have long
had the Women's Study Group for graduates of Firearms Academy
classes, and yes, it continues and has grown wonderfully under
the influence of the ladies teaching here at the Academy-so that
is not at all only about me! Q You worked with us on some of the writer's seminars and I know you've consulted with authors on your own as well as worked on some of NSSF's workshops. The purpose is to give information to those who are synthesizing it and make it public as entertainment (books, screenplays, etc.). Has anything surprised you about that experience generally? Can you watch an action movie or a Lifetime "Women in jeopardy" movie without yelling at the screen or TV? A Helping with those programs was a very interesting and satisfying experience. In the Second Amendment Foundation's programs, I really liked the mix of classroom and informal time like the first-night reception and the dinner hours. It was such fun to talk with the writers about what they were hoping to write, had written or were in the process of crafting. The women writers in particular were so eager to learn how to integrate what we knew into their stories. I think it was the last one I did, I ended up sharing a cab to the airport with one of the writers, and right up to the minute we parted in the terminal she was asking questions! She later sent me the book incorporating the information, and she'd done quite a good job of writing a compelling story that was technically accurate. I'm more of a reader than a TV or movie watcher, but no, it is very hard for me to watch "victim training films," so it's probably a better idea to shoo me out of the room if you're going to watch something like that! And, before you ask, yes, I do talk back to books, too, because there are just as many bad ideas there as on TV or in movies! Seriously, though, a few years ago, I taught a seminar in which I encouraged the ladies to identify the ideas, beliefs, fears and programming that made them hesitant or uncertain in matters of self defense. I'll repeat some advice I closed with at that program-guard closely the beliefs you let take root in your mind. While the tools of self defense are important and the topics of many an interesting article, the most important weapon is your mind. Take care what programming you put in place!
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Right around Christmas time last year I got a package
from Krause Books. In it was Personal Defense for Women by Gila
Hayes. A couple of weeks later, Gila herself sent a copy with
a note in her usual self-depreciating style and a wish for happy
holidays for me and my family-along with the hope that we would
see each other at the upcoming SHOT Show in Vegas.
I've never had the opportunity to take a class at
the Firearms Academy, but I've been very lucky to watch Gila
teach at a number of our Firearms & Fiction events. It doesn't
matter if it's in the classroom or on the range, or even at dinner
with the writers, Gila is a natural teacher and a natural leader.
